Why Most Used Cars Should Be Sold As-Is

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
02/22/2015 at 11:55 • Filed to: None

100

Last Friday I sold a 15 year old Pontiac Grand Am for all of $2000. Yesterday I got a call back from the new owner.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

New Owner: "My car won't start."

Me: Are any of the lights turning on?

New Owner: "No. The car is dead. Hey, are you going to pay for whatever's wrong with this?"

Me: "No, I always sell older cars AS/IS. But I'll be happy to help you out."

(three minutes later)

Me: "You see that headlight switch that's on the left hand side?"

New Owner: "Yep."

Me: "Is it on?"

New Owner: "Uhhh... yeah. I think it is."

Me: "Okay, switch it off. Jump start your car. Drive it for about 20 or 30 minutes. If you're still having trouble, give me a call back."

That was about 11:00 Saturday morning, and now, thankfully, twenty-four hours have flown by without a peep.

About two weeks earlier I had another much older guy call me about his driver side mirror not working on his Honda Prelude. I told him to find the little red button on the driver door panel and switch it from the passenger side to the driver side. He was thankful, and then he asked me if I could pay for one of his keys since it apparently didn't open his trunk.

He didn't understand what a valet key was. After I told him how they worked, he was fine.

I was a bit "Meh." at this point though. This was a guy who, I not so fondly recalled, tried to buy a car by nickeling down every little thing he could find and opted for that me vs. you mentality that makes selling older used cars a true misery for far too many of us.

Questions like...

"Are you sure you can't sell it for less?" (Didn't I just offer you my bottom line price 10 seconds ago?)

"I found the same model on Craigslist for only $1300. Can you sell your $3500 car for anywhere close to that? (No, because I don't own a junkyard and I don't compete with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . )

and the number one question that comes up when it comes to selling older cars if you're a dealer.

"Can you sell your car with any type of warranty?"

The answer is yes. I can sell it with whatever warranty comes from the manufacturer and I can offer a warranty through a third party. Just like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and most other established used car dealerships furnish.

What I can't do is offer you something for nothing. Especially when it comes to the average used car which is 11.5 years old according to R.L. Polk & Co., and likely has somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 miles.

Products with that level of age and use generally don't get warranties. And they shouldn't unless you are willing to pay for the premium that comes with providing it. In my experiences, nearly everyone is unwilling to pay that premium which is why most sellers opt to sell these cars AS/IS.

AS/IS is the ultimate finalizer of a deal unless you're willing to pay a bit more.

As a seller, When those signatures are signed and you hand over the keys, car and a clean title to the new owner, you are done. No more. It's out of your life, and something better can get into your life.

Does the buyer have rights? Yes. He has the right to pursue all the things that come with buying any big ticket item.

These rights can make or break many deals, which is is why I always let folks do three things when they buy from my dealership.

1) I always let the vehicle be independently inspected .

Any reputable dealer or seller should let a vehicle be inspected within reason.

You should always get this done, and I don't care how much of an expert you think you are or how much you trust the seller.

I spend an inordinate amount of the last 15 years at the dealer auctions inspecting, appraising and liquidating vehicles. I have even liquidated over 10,000 vehicles a year for an auto finance company and... I still have every single vehicle go through a secondary inspection by an experienced mechanic before putting any of them on the front line.

Nobody's perfect. So don't be cheap. Get the car inspected by an expert. Sadly in my experiences, more than 90% of car buyers never bother to do this.

2) I always let people take a long test drive.

If you can't drive a vehicle for twenty to thirty minutes and meticulously go through it, you're setting yourself for failure. Many of the fatal issues, such as a bad transmission or a blown head gasket, don't become evident until after the vehicle is driven for a while.

When you take the time to go through a vehicle, you are no longer just, "Buying with your eyes." You are performing the basic due diligence that may save you from investing money into a bad car.

3) I always offer a Carfax history. But more importantly...

I take the time to interpret that history. This isn't easy to do but again, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

When you sell a car, you're dealing with everyone from the hardcore enthusiast to the automotive oblivious.

The good ones are easy, and when I get the rare chance to sell one to a fellow enthusiast, I enjoy the hell out of it.

The bad ones are the real pain in your tailpipe. They will try to nickel you down even before seeing the car, lie to your face about problems that don't exist, abuse your property, offer lowball prices with a cunning smile on their face, and then try to flag your Craigslist ad on the belief that a sudden mysterious drop in demand will cause your price to suddenly crater.

This type of me vs. you mindset drains a seller's soul. What makes these people go away?

AS/IS.

If you want anything better than AS/IS when buying a used car, any used car, do your homework or pay for a warranty. The marketplace seldom helps those who can't help themselves.

DISCUSSION (100)

Clown Shoe Pilot > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 12:15

Why is is a fraction? How about just "AS IS"

Garrett Davis > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 12:23

I can't stand these people. You nailed it.

Steven Lang > Clown Shoe Pilot
02/22/2015 at 12:25

It's a common shortened version of the phrase, "As it is."

Everything from legal documents, like the buyer guides you see on the windows, to the legal bill of sales, use this type of phraseology. They either use a dash or a forward slash in between the two words.

Hope this helps.

Tom Payne > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 12:30

Great information here. I turned down a ridiculous trade offer on my car because I decided I could do better on my own. I wish I had read this before I made that commitment, although my experience turned out great. I think it's important to be totally honest about what you are selling. If the tires are bad, admit it. I think a buyer who is surprised by any deceptions is going to be angry and rightfully so. I sold my car on Craigslist.
My second advice is be patient. Wait for the right offer from the RIGHT customer. I set a slightly high asking price and if I thought I would have problems with the buyer I just refused to deal on the money. My buyer was a retired welder who loves to work on cars. His first question was about oil consumption. I've had several calls from him since he bought the car and he is as happy as a clam.

Steven Lang > Tom Payne
02/22/2015 at 12:44

It's always a pleasure to sell a car to an enthusiast who has the right mindset. It's one of the things that keeps me going.

shop-teacher > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 12:46

Lets also not forget, fellow buyers, that shit does happen. I spent almost a year with a warrantied CPO '11 Malibu. Clean CarFax, passed inspection, all that good stuff. It turned out to be a piece of crap. So, I took a loss and got rid of it.

When I took my odometer statement into the dealer I bought it from (to get a refund on the extended warranty) they were very apologetic that the car hadn't met my expectations. I told them not to worry about it, they hadn't done anything wrong. They bought a clean used car at auction, and sold it to me at a fair price. Then shit happened.

Steven Lang > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 12:52

All too true. Sometimes you can do everything right, and end up with everything wrong.

shop-teacher > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 12:59

Yep, it's happened to me twice. From now on I'm sticking with either brand new (lemon law) or beaters (it hurts a lot less when a cheap car breaks).

XSeriesWalkingDead > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 13:55

Good article. Please consider writing one on interpreting a Carfax report.

Stef Schrader > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 13:58

All the cool kids had Grand Ams.

Daniel > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:00

I'm fine with "AS-IS", as long as the dealer is honest about the condition of the car and allows an independent examination. If the dealer isn't honest, well, then we might have some issues.

Steven Lang > XSeriesWalkingDead
02/22/2015 at 14:15

I will. It's one of my favorite topics.

Steven Lang > Stef Schrader
02/22/2015 at 14:16

and Celucas. At least when I was a student during the MC Hammer recession.

66Impalahardtop > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:40

Buying new is okay if you have the money to do so.

Buying a like-new low-mileage car that was someone's weekend toy & letting them take the depreciation hit is even better.

66Impalahardtop > Stef Schrader
02/22/2015 at 14:41

I live in NJ. I associate Grand Ams with poor life choices & meth.

Bruce McDougall > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:42

Ha! MC Hammer recession! It was Hammer time indeed.

Tony Dapostrophe > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:43

Funny enough, I got rid of my '03 Grand Am GT last weekend for about the same price on a trade in for my '09 base G8.

Destructive Tester > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:43

It's sad to say, but the stories you listed are why I've never sold a vehicle and instead traded them in or sold them to a dealer... Yes, I can make more selling it myself but I really, REALLY dislike people and consider the price difference the cost of convenience.

e holder > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:44

I would like to see a "Celuca."

e holder > Daniel
02/22/2015 at 14:45

How do you determine whether he's "honest?"

jkaslowski > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:49

It's (painfully) obvious to anyone that knows about cars, that once you have cars for sale, most people know absolutely nothing about cars and how they work...

Vincent Davidson > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 14:52

With all due respect, your first misstep was buying an Epsilon Malibu. Utter rubbish that epitomized all the bad parts of Old GM.

I had a 2008. That car was built very poorly. It'll be the last GM product I'll own for a long time.

NcogNeegro > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:52

I thought all used cars where sold as - is? I buy only used vehicles, never new, and all I ask for is that I'm told about any problems. But then that is what research is for, and a little luck. ALSO, Lemon Laws.

Iwaswonderofwonders > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:54

Kinja'd!!!

Please tell me that door isn't shut all the way.

Sjubbdubb > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 14:55

That's a great attitude, and it is worth to be written down here - because I feel like it is out of the ordinary. It's hard to accept that "shit can happen" anyway, just as you say it, especially when people feel they've done everything right. I'm no mechanic, but I'm a car guy among clueless academics, so I get questions about used car help from my network all the time. Can't stress that part enough: There are no guarantess for being thorough, it's just about reducing the odds of mishaps. And then they go and buy what they wanted to start with anyway...

Without trying to be cocky or demeaning, just an honest question: Have you considering buying something that's not American? Sounds like you have had your share of bad luck anyway.

ikutoisahobo > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:55

Hey, Steve is there like a OPPO/Jalop classified where I can get some traction on trying to sell my 49,000 mile 97 TBird V8?

Baeromez > Stef Schrader
02/22/2015 at 14:55

Had an '01 GT as my first car. Many fwd lunch tray doughnuts were done in the high school parking lot.

SubieNick > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:57

I sold my old '01 Outback this summer and, being my first sale - of my first car, I was a bit worried. However, I took tips from earlier 'how to sell you used car' articles on Jalopnik and tidbits from around and just made sure I listed everything in detail. What has been replaced, what noise is coming from what corner and what I think it is. Detailed the heck out of the car and took lots of pictures. I also listed as is and made sure I wrote it on the bill of sale.

I listed it at a cheeky price with a certain amount in my head I wanted but thinking I still might not get. It took a while to sell it and that worried me, but I ended up getting slightly more than I had intended to out of it (I think largely to do with my detailed ad and the condition I was able to keep the car in). The actual buyer works out of town but needed a reliable car when he was back on his couple of weeks off a month - so I dealt with his dad who is doing a nut and bolt restoration of an Alfa. I knew they could do my Outback proud and was glad to have sold to them. Haven't heard from them since but I did see the car out in the snow the other day and I smiled.

MissContrarianRedux > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:57

3) I always offer a Carfax history. But more importantly... I take the time to interpret that history. This isn't easy to do but again, the information is out there .

I'm hoping your 'interpretation" includes a disclosure something along the lines of " CarFax is sort of a joke. It is only as good as what is reported to it. Just because CarFax says there was never an accident doesn't mean there was never an accident."

Please do not ever take what a CarFax, AutoCheck, or any other vehicle history report says as gospel (unless it is reporting 'negative' events — trust that reporting is accurate). Speifically, don't take the absence of 'negative' indicators to mean the vehicle is "good." Far more frequently I have seen then used to add credibility to a dealer's misrepresentions of the vehicle's history when a dealer knew, or should have known, about prior accident damage, than I have ever heard of it being used to disclose daming information about the car.

Chuck Fickens > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 14:58

UK Point of view..

Buying a used car from a private seller is always caveat emptor

I've bought 30+ cars from private sellers, I went to look at them, If I liked it, I bought it. a few times I've got a lemon. I have never gone back to the seller and complained, I see it as my fault for not spotting the problem.

Used cars from a private seller... I expect to be lied to and they are not accountable

Used cars from a dealer I expect honesty to the best of their knowledge and they are accountable if they do lie!

Sjubbdubb > Tom Payne
02/22/2015 at 14:59

From my experience, people don't read ads, and they have a hard time listening. Sold six year old tires with a nice profile once, and I thought some rally kid might show up. A 50-something bought them, after a lot of back-and-fourth about meeting, cancelling meetings, whatever. Seconds before he hands me the money, he asks: "How old are they?", I tell him and he grunts, doesn't want them. The one time I clicked..."if you can't read an ad with three lines, how can you drive a car or eat your meals with anything but spoons?", or so I asked. Got my money, steamed out of there. Things like this keep on happening even though my "write sharp and short skills" are constantly improved.

JimJamJollop > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:02

"This type of me vs. you mindset drains a seller's soul. What makes these people go away? "

Every small business owner has their own variant of these people. The folks who are effectively trying to get something for nothing and / or think your time is free.

- Behaving badly, loudly, in retail establishment

- Threatening bad online reviews

- Changing their mind then insisting it was you that screwed up

- Letting you do the work before deciding on whether or not to pick up and pay

Fortunately, these folks tend to be the exceptions to the rule though they do seem to cross your path in clusters. Time, patience and persistence teaches us each our strategy for handling these situations, but the soul sucking sensation every time you experience it never goes away.

Ultimately, I'm always left with the same question. Are these simply otherwise good people in a tough spot or having a bad day or is there really a subset of humanity that is just completely narcissistic.

MissContrarianRedux > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 15:03

Lemon laws do not only apply to new vehicles, at least in California. They apply to any vehicle —new or used— that is sold with a warranty.

Depending on the state you purchased in, and when you purchased, you may want to consider seeking legal advice from someone who specializes in auto fraud cases. Depending on what is wrong with the vehicle, how soon it began, what kind od questions you asked prior to purchase, and what kind of answers you were given, you may havea claim for fraud*

*This is not legal advice. Please consult an attorney in your area.

RedBlissKid > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:03

I'm not sure you need that slash at all.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/as-is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_is

The first example includes a hyphen, but in the example sentence there the hyphen is omitted. I wasn't able to find any discussion as to why a slash would be needed.

Erzhik Tem > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:04

When I was a kid, my parents sold our 5 year old POS Hyundai. The people who bought it, drove it around for a year (!) and when shit finally started to break (windshield wipers motor, AC, heater, etc), they called us back and demanded full refund. Pretty sure my parents told them to frack off.

Color-Commentary > ikutoisahobo
02/22/2015 at 15:05

Try submitting it to Bring A Trailer. There's definitely an audience on there for 90s Fords in time-capsule condition, and you've got something really interesting and sort of under- appreciated.

OUTFOXEM > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:06

I'd be interested in reading this. I like to think that I know how to interpret them myself, but I always like to learn more.

MissContrarianRedux > XSeriesWalkingDead
02/22/2015 at 15:06

Here, I'll do it for you, and keep it short: they are barely a step above worthless, especially if they show a "clean" history. However, if they report a 'problem,' then that report can likely be trusted as accurate.

I summation: a 'dirty' report should give you serious pause, but a clean report doesn't really mean all that much, except as a salesmans' tool to up-talk the vehicle.

BigJim > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:07

I think its less that people are buying them as is and more that a large majority people are just stupid. But hey thats just what i think.

jcpwn3r > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 15:08

too true, after years as an automotive engineer, the only thing I truly know is shit happens, and shit happens often...

TractorPillow > Sjubbdubb
02/22/2015 at 15:10

agreed. shit does happen and you can't help it most of the time. Sometimes it's just bad luck. I recently bought a 72 mini cooper; it drove amazing for a week and then it was sputtering and eventually went into limp mode. before freaking out and going to yell at the dealership that sold it to me, I had a place check it out and they suggested that it was just bad gas. it turned out that it was just bad gas and once I put a new tank in and reset the ECU it worked perfectly again. sometimes a lemon is just a little bad luck that can be easily fixed.

Daedalus2048 > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:10

This is why I trust the dealer I've gone back to literally three times at this point. I bought a Grand Prix from them, I was allowed to basically do whatever I wanted with it and then take it back to the dealership. I bought that car.

When the time came to trade in the Prix I bought another car from the same dealership. I had a nice Jeep Liberty, again. I took it on a long test drive, no one cared and I ended up buying that one.

After the Liberty got hit and was totaled I went back to the same dealership. At this point the guy knows me and tells me they just got in an Xterra that they need to work on but he thinks I'd be interested in.

Again I take this thing for a long test drive, I literally drive it to my house and back, and come back and I'm sold.

Never had a bad car from this dealer because they're upfront about things and aren't shitheads. It's simple. I couldn't be happier with what I have now and I can directly attribute that to dealer needs/wants and my needs/wants coming together in an amicable way and the ability to do whatever I wanted on a test drive with every single car I've purchase from said dealer.

MissContrarianRedux > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:10

or pay for a warranty.

Also, buyer beware regarding these. What used car dealerships often describe as an "extended warranty" is really a "service packge." There is a difference. A warranty is something that typically comes from a manufacturer. A service packge typically covers much less and is a dealer up-sell.

Remember folks: dealers aren't in the business of selling cars. They are in the business of selling service packages and financing vehicles. That is where the money is.

PeteRR > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:11

In '86, I sold my '74 Beetle to a buddy of mine for $450. Three owners later, none of whom bothered to get the title switched out of my name, some random dude calls me up to complain that the car leaks oil. My Dad fielded the call and ripped him a new asshole. From then on when I sell a car, I make them sign the title right in front of me.

chicane > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 15:14

I wish more people had common sense like that. I work at a motorcycle dealership and I've seen people come in demanding their money back and we're sheisty assholes who sold them a piece of shit because they hit a curb or pot hole so hard it bent the rim and destroyed the tire. Yet it's our problem. Unbelievable. I got cussed over the phone one time cuz a guys gas cap was frozen shut. He keeps the bike outside with no cover and it was 22 out. Weekly something like this happens.

craddict > Chuck Fickens
02/22/2015 at 15:14

Those comments are likely true in the US as well. However, I think you are just as likely to get lied to at a dealer. What I like about buying private party is that you can sometimes get a feel for how the car was driven and taken care of. Some private sellers will surely detail the car, change the oil, etc, but most probably will not. If the car has reasonably fresh looking fluids, decent tires, and has some service records that is a plus. Also, I have never had the luck of buying a used car from a dealer that came with service records. I dont know about you guys, but typically when I trade in a car at a dealer I will take out everything that has my name and address on it and throw it away.

Tam4511 > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:14

luckily I don't have to deal with the customer side but I am a Used-Car tech for a larg dealership and I get stuff come back for the most silly things. Car buying processes (especially of the used variety) could be made so much simpler and more confident with the steps you listed. But i would add that i would test drive the car for a day or two. I know a craigslist seller isn't going to approve this but most legit dealers will.

Maxxuman > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 15:15

You might want to read what Steve Lehto had to say about Lemon Law cars.

Cyclone fan > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:15

Overall, great article, I don't think I could ever sell cars for a living with the people who know nothing about cars, but assume they are experts in what a dealer has 'written into the price'...but on the section:

""Are you sure you can't sell it for less?" (Didn't I just offer you my bottom line price 10 seconds ago?)"

Part of this is caused BY dealers too...I dealt with a local dealership a few years back, saw an opportunity to trade a used for new vehicle during the used boom/new bust after cash for clunkers...in other words, I didn't NEED to buy, but saw an opportunity and WOULD buy, and I was up front with the dealer on this. They played ALL the tricks...oh, where did your keys go...the NADA guide online is wrong or you didn't put in the right information, etc. I fought thru most of it to see if I could work something out, and we got to final price....this is your best deal...your manager can't do anything else? OK, the numbers don't work out for me, let's just cut it at that. After another 10 minutes of 'looking for my keys' the manager comes in and asks if there's anything else they can do...OK, so your bottom line before really wasn't your bottom line, then. I simply stated that if they were going to tell me they were at bottom line price, I was going to take them at their word, and if the numbers didn't work out, our discussions were ended. In the future, if they wished to negotiate with me, be honest in your pricing...unfortunately, after dealing with people like this a few times, most people assume the 'bottom line' price is just another BS line.

sklooner > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:17

People read And hear what they want to, selling a car without an engine I am asked ' is it reliable? Driveable ? Sold a Volvo with close to 800000 km for the price of the snow tires in the back and people want a warranty. Folks want boutique service 7/11 convenience and 'fell off a truck' pricing and sadly I'm not allowed to smack them upside the head anymore

DontGetYourPubesInATubeTina > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:18

Where does one find an independent inspector, and how does one get them to come to a dealership and inspect a car under consideration for purchase? I have never heard of this profession until now. I don't even know how to search for someone who might do this. What do they call themselves? Is it as simple and plain as "car inspectors"?

I suspect the reason 90% of buyers don't do this is not that they "never bother," but that they also have no idea it exists. No one tells us these things. I only just found out about it in this article, completely by accident, and I still have utterly insufficient information to implement it.

something clever > Vincent Davidson
02/22/2015 at 15:21

With all due respect, your first misstep was generalizing your experience to the entire brand. The Epsilon Malibu was a breakout product that helped usher GM into the new decade.

I have a 2008. The car is built surprisingly well, and has stood up to seven years and over 100,000 miles of Los Angeles driving without a single major fault. I can't wait to buy my next GM product.

jdjonesdr > Garrett Davis
02/22/2015 at 15:22

Most of the time, I feel sorry for them. Most of us have a gift for knowing how things work, and a high degree of mechanical aptitude. Most don't have a clue.

You can talk to them about things like Piston return springs, relative bearing grease, muffler bearings, kanuter valves, photon modifier oil and blinker fluid and they'll think you're as serious as a heart attack.

I sometimes think I was put on earth just to help the ones I run into occasionally.

Jumbojeepman > PeteRR
02/22/2015 at 15:22

NC is a special PITA with titles, so you have to get the buyer and seller together in front of a notary. People want you to sign the title and say they'll get it notarized, or want you to get just your 1/2 of the title notarized, I won't do either anymore. I also get a bill of sale that states as is, where is signed by the buyer and lastly don't let them drive away with your plates on the vehicle (unless you are in a state where the plates stay with the vehicle.)

craddict > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:22

3) I always offer a Carfax history. But more importantly...

Are you sure it is a good idea to interpret the carfax? Personally, I would steer away from giving a buyer any advice or opinion as to the history of the car. As soon as you do that they are going to claim you told them certain things about the car. What if the carfax is wrong? The whole point of selling a car as/is is to represent to the buyer that they are getting the car as it sits with no representation or warranty as to its condition, driveability, etc. As has been discussed on Jalopnik before, carfax reports can often be bogus. I would give them a copy and not say shit about it.

a-white-guy > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:22

I just sold my 1995 Mustang GT Convertible a couple days ago (my first car!). I've had it on the market a few times in the past, but finally lowered my price to a more realistic number. I posted it for $2800 firm on Craigslist, which was lower than a lot of other similar Mustangs that were in worse condition. CL is a great way to advertise a car, but some of the people you have to deal with are just ridiculous. Here are a few things I found:

-Without fail, the first questions people would are me are: 1) do you still have the car, and 2) what is your bottom dollar, despite the fact that I specifically stated on the ad that if the ad was still up I still had the car and that I was firm on the price.

-I would get many low ball offers for a car that was listed several hundred dollars below the blue book price even though it was in really good condition overall, and I listed the few issues it had. Oh yeah, and they would make these offers before they even saw the car!

-I would have a lot of responses to the ad and would plan to meet up some time soon and then the people would stop answering me or not follow through in getting back to me.

Luckily someone eventually responded to my ad that was very enthusiastic about buying it, and apparently had some money burning a hole in his pocket from an injury settlement he recently received. I'm not sure how well he will take care of my baby, but I got the price I asked for so I'm happy.

I realized a little after he drove off that I forgot to write "as is" on the bill of sale though...doh!

JohnTaurus-3L-AX4N > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:24

I wouldnt call myself a curbstoner. I dont usually buy vehicles with the idea in mind that Im going to resell it for a profit. I keep cars for six months to a year (more or less, depending on how much I like the car. for example, I kept my 1995 Achieva for just as long as it took for the title to get in lol). A dealer keeps cars in inventory that long, yes, but mine are being driven daily either by me or a friend/family member. I rarely make money, usually just a few hundred if that, hardly worth it for the amount Ive usually spent on the car, including oil changes, tune up, newer wheels/tires usually, most of the labor provided by me.

Ive helped people far more than I shouldve in the past, even though all sales are as-is. My good nature I guess. I dont mind replacing the lower rad hose on an 88 Taurus a month after you buy it, but I balked at returning the $800 he paid for it when some other (relatively minor, under $100 Id say) issue came up 6 months later. I offered half if he returned the car, lol oh no sir, he liked the car, wasnt giving it up. I said you just want it for free, huh? Or a decades old, sub-$1K used car with nearly 200K and 0 issues, ever?

Nitecrawlah2 > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:24

Nicely done.

Hanoumatoi > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:24

I bought a used car in Massachusetts about 10 years ago, I took it in for inspection, and they found an issue, and the guy who sold it to me had to fix the issue. I thought that was because of a Massachusetts law, but I'm not sure (maybe I had negotiated that if a problem came up on the inspection he'd fix it). Are there states that have limits on AS/IS?

_Mr_X_ > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:24

"Get the car inspected by an expert. Sadly in my experiences, more than 90% of car buyers never bother to do this."

It's been a while since I've looked into buying a used car on Craigslist, but my experience as a buyer is that there was always another buyer willing to purchase without first getting an expert inspection (as you stated). So that really puts those of us who want to get an inspection at a disadvantage - almost all the time when I asked if I could take it to a shop to have it inspected, the seller's response would be "sure, except I have 5 other people coming in today to look at the car and will just sell to them first if possible."

360nation > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:24

I also just sold my Grand Am (99 Se2 trim) and 3 months later, the guy who bought it, apparently sold to someone else - and they claimed it now caught fire and somehow I was responsible for this?? Very weird...selling old used cars is a weird experience...

350Zed > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:26

I sell every car with a 30/30 warranty.

30 seconds later or 30 feet away

After either, don't bother calling me because there will be zero f***s given.

Galant Enthusiast > Tom Payne
02/22/2015 at 15:27

The best way to sell a car is to be upfront about everything, price it fairly, and then not haggle. it saves you so much trouble.

miket10 > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:28

My mother-in-law is one of these people. Three years ago She brought a 2000 Mercury Sable and years later she would try to go back to the used car dealer and try to get them to fix things that due to use or age needed repair. Drove both the guy at the car lot and myself crazy.

TMJ4790 > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:28

Many years ago I sold a used Honda Civic. It was 7-8 years old, with about 75K miles on it. About nine months later the buyer called me. It needed front brake pads. He felt that, since I had used half the life of those pads, I should pay for half the cost of replacement. I hung up on him.

ikutoisahobo > Color-Commentary
02/22/2015 at 15:29

I've seen some of the Super Coupes (supercharged V6 versions) of these go for close to 8k, mine is the one below that (the V8)

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/…

elisethestrange > JimJamJollop
02/22/2015 at 15:29

I think it's a bit of both, and sometimes in the same person. I work in a customer-oriented small business, and I've had these people call up and apologize. Others pull the same shit over and over until they're just told to never come back. I've been an ill-behaved customer before, on a bad day, but I've grown out of that behavior as I've gotten older. What gets me are the people in middle age or later who still haven't managed to figure out that the world doesn't revolve around them. Zero patience for those.

Shaggy > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:31

Yup, just like life itself.

Sagaris > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:31

This comes off as a really bitchy article. Car dealers try to get as much money from the customer as possible, and the customer tries to get the cheapest deal they can. I bet when you go to auction you try to get it for as cheap as possible right? Guess what, the buyers are trying to do the same thing. Them coming back to you for AS-IS is dumb but the rest of the article is just bitching about the line of work you chose.

I bought cars without talking the seller down but that is usually from a private party who is asking a fair price (my last Jag I bought we did not even talk about price I just handed him the cash after the test drive). Dealers always have wiggle room and I bet you have called people back who would not take your bottom line offer. I know I've had messages on my answering machine before I even got home saying they would take my offer, thought it was usually on vehicles that cost around $30,000.

Listen, it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world but for every good dealer there are probably 2 bad ones. If you do watch out for yourself no one else is going to. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with people who sell cheap cars anymore as most of them are scraping for every penny just like the people buying the vehicles.

elisethestrange > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:32

I was about to bitch that every used car I've bought has developed a problem approximately 2 weeks after I got it, but you're so right on #1. I've never done it. The expense of independent appraisal (how much does that cost anyway) is tough when you can barely scrape together the $2k to buy the beater. Penny wise, pound foolish?

Vincent Davidson > something clever
02/22/2015 at 15:32

Good for you. Seriously. I wanted so much for mine to be a good car, but it was a disappointment for me.

FWIW I only drove Chevrolet for many years. I will be considering the ATS for example when my Accord lease is up.

I'll never own a brand new one again though.

Vzwolf > Destructive Tester
02/22/2015 at 15:35

I sold my first car privately. Never again. What a hassle. Tire kickers, have to meet at certain places, the paperwork, etc. I rather just have a finance manager do all of that for me.

Also you get the tax savings too depending on your state. So it brings the difference down a little.

Steven Lang > Sagaris
02/22/2015 at 15:35

Wrong assumptions.

Wrong generalizations.

Wrong attitude.

But I do like Jags.

gokstate > Destructive Tester
02/22/2015 at 15:37

I've never sold to a dealer. the thousands in price difference is worth putting up with most of this stuff. I think one can glean a lot from communicating with an individual—both as a buyer and seller. If your Scooby sense is going off in the wrong direction about the person, walk away. Now this is as an individual. This article seems more written as a dealer rant.

Noblesse Oblige ZERO > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 15:37

I once bought a car from someone for a pretty fair price. Then way later when I went to get my car checked out for something. I read from the service history that the reason he sold it to me was because of a failed fan clutch, belt tensioner and a stuck temperature gauge. He apparently took the car to the same place for an estimate and sold it to me without telling me about these problems. So I never knew that it was overheating and only barely being cooled by the supplemental electric cooling fans. So now I gotta get a new head gasket installed on it. Even though that was an ass thing to do. I should of been smart enough to get the car inspected. I would of went to the same place and would of learned that before I bought it not after.

shop-teacher > Maxxuman
02/22/2015 at 15:40

I've read it all, and agree with him completely. I said I buy bew cars to be prorected by the lemon law.

shop-teacher > MissContrarianRedux
02/22/2015 at 15:41

In most states, mine included, the lemon law only applies to the original owner.

MissContrarianRedux > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:41

opted for that me vs. you mentality

You mean the mentality that controls every single used car dealership , ever?

I understand you're selling as a private party (or at least it seems so), but, really now, c'mon. It is a business transaction. The two parties to the deal have diametrically opposed interests. How can you fault someone for wanting to get the very best deal they can? Isn't that what you're trying to get for yourself? Isn't that why are you aren't auctioning the vehicle or trying to trade it in at a lot? Because you think you can get more private party? Well, the flip side is that the purchaser is buying private party, and that leaves them with none of the most basic assurances they they get from even the shittiest of dealerships, like the ability to recover against the dealers bond in a lawsuit.

Oh, and while I'm blowing up your comment section: don't carry CarMax's water for them. They are among the worst of the worst. They prey upon stupid, uninformed people. Their "certification" inspection is beyond worthless. They don't let you take a test-drive on freeways. And the warranty is designed to be just long enough to give piece of mind, but short enough to ensure that the problems they have masked won't become apparent enough to seek mechanical work until after the 30 days is up. Friends don't let friends buy from CarMax.

something clever > Vincent Davidson
02/22/2015 at 15:42

To be honest, when my father first bought the car all those years ago, I derided him for buying the first model year of a new GM generation. I'm probably as surprised as you that it turned out as well as it did. He did spring for the LTZ, and that was the only year it came with a V6 and flappy paddles, so that could have been the reason that it was so enjoyable.

Like you, I'll probably be looking for an ATS in a few years, and like you I'll probably be buying used. That has more to do with sweet, sweet depreciation than personal experience though.

Thanks for taking my post in good spirit.

benmarvin > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:44

Having just sold an older car yesterday to an enthusiast, I can fully relate to this. Luckily I wasn't in a hurry to sell and was patient. Had plenty of people offer barely scrap value and I just ignored their emails.

shop-teacher > Sjubbdubb
02/22/2015 at 15:47

Thanks. I'm open-minded on country of origin :)

We traded that Malibu and my wife's '06 Mazda 3 in on a new Mazda CX-5 (great vehicle!). I went back to daily driving my '06 GMC Sierra, which I've owned since new, and has been rock-solid for me.

Shaggy > Jumbojeepman
02/22/2015 at 15:48

What's wrong with letting them drive away with the plates?

shop-teacher > chicane
02/22/2015 at 15:48

Ugh, people really suck sometimes.

shop-teacher > Vincent Davidson
02/22/2015 at 15:50

They sctually have a very good reputation for being reliable, but mine sure as shit didn't live up to it. We replaced it with a Mazda, the General and I need a break.

bobrayner > Chuck Fickens
02/22/2015 at 15:52

That's one of the reasons I like BCA. No lies, not much mischief, nobody on either side is interested in a 10 minute lecture about how the wheelnuts have been polished by hand. BCA just provide a couple of basic details like mileage, and a blurry photo. Either bid or piss off. It's perfect for people who don't like dealing with people.

MissContrarianRedux > Chuck Fickens
02/22/2015 at 15:52

Used cars from a dealer I expect honesty to the best of their knowledge and they are accountable if they do lie!

Don't ever expect that. Expect to be lied to. Always. Especially from a dealership. In my experience private sellers are much more likely to be honest, becuase they aren't trained as liars, like car salesman. The saying "no one lies like a used car salesman" exists for a reason. These guys are amazing liars.

As for holding them accountable for fraud ... yes, that is possible. And a long and expensive process during which you're going to be stucxk holding the bag, and likely making payments upon, a vehicle that is a POS.

IratiHistoricvs > jdjonesdr
02/22/2015 at 15:54

Which is it, most have a gift, or most don't have a clue? If only knowing what makes a car go was enough.

jasmits > jdjonesdr
02/22/2015 at 15:55

I once had an actual used car salesman show me the "turbo" on an E36 325i. Looked quite a lot like an oil filter to me.

responsibly irresponsible > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 15:56

If only all buyers were well informed. I had a hell of a time selling my 02' WRX wagon because it had a rebuilt motor, new tranny and a little bit of rust (because Alberta). I had all the engine and transmission work done buy a reputable indie Subaru shop and all the paper work to go with it (along with a 3 year warranty on all the work they did) and it still took me 6 months to sell the car.

A lot of people were weary because of the work done to it but if the buyers did a little research they would have learned that it's almost inevitable for both the engine and transmission to go in early WRX's. I ended up selling it for FAR less than what was put in to it and he still tried to haggle me down, comparing it to Subies with 200,000+ kms with no repair history.

In the end he was buying it for a rallycross/winter car so I knew it was going to a good home but DAMN was I getting nervous after so many showings and no bites. Just gotta be patient I guess and wait for the right buyer

facw > DontGetYourPubesInATubeTina
02/22/2015 at 15:57

Look for an independent shop that specializes in this make if buying from a dealer. If buying from a private seller, going to the dealer is fine too (though probably more expensive). As MissContrarian says, if the seller won't let you have it inspected, you do not want to buy the car.

DontGetYourPubesInATubeTina > facw
02/22/2015 at 16:00

So... someone from an independent shop will come to a dealership for me? How... why? Wouldn't they just want to sell me one of their cars instead?

I don't understand what the process is here.

Jacicus-Impreza > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 16:00

I recently purchased an 02 legacy gt off of an a friend of my father's who just happens to be a bit of a subaru nut. I gave it a solid once over, and took a 45 minite test drive where he disclosed all known issues with the car. (Front struts need replacing, slight power steering leak at the pump, and a couple minor cosmetic issues). I took the car home for a few hundred less than he was asking. (Already significantly under the book value for the year and condition). I got home that night for my usual new car tune up, and noticed that the passanger side fog light was cracked and full of dirt, so I called him and asked him if he had another laying around that I could buy. You'd think he'd just seen a ghost when I was talking to him about it. He actually came over and installed it for me. Even though the car was sold as is, he went above and beyond even after the sale.

detailer4u > shop-teacher
02/22/2015 at 16:04

finally someone who understands things happen. Take responsibility for your decision instead of pointing fingers and demanding accountability from those who acted in good faith and had no intention of doing harm. Kudos to you shop teacher.......

dasautoya > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 16:04

Watching the video and then *BAM* surprise ponytail!

facw > DontGetYourPubesInATubeTina
02/22/2015 at 16:04

Just ask the dealer if you can take the car to a mechanic for an inspection. If they say yes, no problem. If they say no, it's probably because they have something they want to hide about the vehicle. Think of it as a very thorough test drive.

Oh, the independent mechanic will do the inspection because you pay them. Well worth it unless you are buying a car for $500.

skeffles > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 16:04

Lets sum it up. If you are a seller, then selling as-is is hands down the way to go. If you are a buyer, buying a car as-is is folly in the extreme.

There ya all go.

The ever-present football-player rapist > Clown Shoe Pilot
02/22/2015 at 16:07

Why capital letters?

DontGetYourPubesInATubeTina > facw
02/22/2015 at 16:09

Thank you! I am really surprised that any dealer will allow a person to take their property to an off-premises mechanic whom they can't observe handling their car, but you're the second person who's said that, if reputable, they will.

This will be very good to know! Much appreciated.

Tysto > Steven Lang
02/22/2015 at 16:09

No. You can google stuff, and the answer comes right up. Writing "AS/IS" is wrong. Writing "as-is" is common but unnecessary. The form "I am offering the item as is" is perfectly good grammar.

https://www.google.com/search?num=100…

Clown Shoe Pilot > The ever-present football-player rapist
02/22/2015 at 16:10

a totally valid question as well